14 Responses to “promises are for politicians…”

  1. luv2sex.info May 2, 2013 at 10:15 pm #

    This picture is better than politicians’ promises because there is transparency, at least you know what’s going on!

  2. NormalDeviations May 16, 2013 at 12:30 pm #

    Talk is cheap; people show their mettle with their actions – or their inactions.

    • secretthots May 16, 2013 at 12:52 pm #

      The tricky thing is when someone thinks their words are worth their weight in gold and they don’t see how their actions contradict.

      (I speak for myself as much as speak about those I witness.)

      Promises. People. Patooie. πŸ™‚

      • NormalDeviations May 16, 2013 at 1:00 pm #

        Oh, but with that comes grace. Accepting that people are human and not might fuck up, but will fuck up. All of us do it; we don’t have the omniscience to see the impact of our words beyond our subjective line of sight.

        But, a challenge here: so what if they see their words are golden? Are they speaking to themselves, or to communicate with another? Someone can say anything, but it’s defined by the other party’s acceptance, belief, or valuation.

        • secretthots May 22, 2013 at 12:53 pm #

          I don’t know, are our words are defined by another’s acquiescence or valuation…? I’ve been thinking about this since you posted it but I’m not any closer to a definitive reply and so, the question remains.

          • NormalDeviations May 22, 2013 at 1:05 pm #

            To muddy the waters further…

            Acquiescence may happen in the moment or in the future. And, like valuation, is only applicable to that particular moment, no?

            I keep thinking back to the lyrics and what the story says in… this.

            Okay, a bit cheesy but it’s the story, not the music. =)

            • secretthots May 22, 2013 at 2:13 pm #

              I guess what I’m also asking is: how much does interpretation determine worth? And what about intention?

              I’m thinking of those instances when a recipient misinterprets the promise-maker’s intention and/ or the speaker/ doer misinterprets their own intention when making a promise – as the story of the song so succinctly tells.

              This self-delusion and projection we are all so skilled at (myself included), deeply challenges any assessment of worth re: one’s word/ (in)action.

              And each particular moment accumulates into many moments of one’s life… creating patterns that can both hide and reveal us to others and ourselves. Our words and actions testify to our flawed natures and shining spirits despite all our best efforts.

              Ah, muddy-mud… that shines like metal on the edge of a knife. πŸ˜‰

              • NormalDeviations May 22, 2013 at 5:54 pm #

                I guess what I’m also asking is: how much does interpretation determine worth? And what about intention?

                The cause of pain. How can you determine another’s intention? Trust in self that your interpretation of intention is close enough for agreement.

                This self-delusion and projection we are all so skilled at (myself included), deeply challenges any assessment of worth re: one’s word/ (in)action.

                And this is why people – you and I, among – have a hard time identifying personal, necessary boundaries and keeping them in place. That self-delusion that convinces us that this time will be different, for whatever reason – real or convinced – when there isn’t tangible validation for that belief.

                In essence, I think that’s a flawed aspect of our hope. We hope that it will be different this time, thus giving it another chance. Whether we should or not.

                And each time when it fails (not always, but often enough) it weighs on us that we knew better and we shouldn’t repeat this cycle of hope and expectation through words and interpretation.

                • secretthots May 23, 2013 at 1:18 pm #

                  Good lord, man, were we in the womb together or what?! Yes. Yes, to all of it, yes. This hope inside compels with an insistence that can become wholly misunderstood and ultimately, alienating. Flawed, indeed.

                  I wonder though if the assumption that our interpretation of intention is close enough, is actually part of where the problem begins because it’s the root of where projections lay? (or is that lie? Sorry, nerd moment.) We project care or commitment or investment when really, the other person’s deeper/ more honest intention is something else…

                  • NormalDeviations May 23, 2013 at 2:46 pm #

                    Heh heh heh.

                    You just hit a key word there: “project” – in all of those things.

                    I’ve grown to believe – or realize – that much of that projection is because we desire to have it reflected back to us. Not *at* us, but to us. We project care, commitment, appreciation, and even love because we yearn for that – and something inside us (usually buried deep) says we want that from the person we project it to, for our internal deep reasons for finding them suitable. Suitable to receive that from us and suitable for what we hope to get from them.

                    That doesn’t sully it, by saying it’s not real as a projection. It’s more complex than that, and I think it’s very real – but it also taints our view of that person.

                    Which is what you’ve touched on before. Or I have. Or both of us. Is our view of that person the reality or what we want to see in them, whether it’s accurate or reciprocated, or not? Blinders?

                    Trying to put it out as a shared example: how we interact (you and I). The more we interact… the more we interact. Is that projection? In a way, yes – because the times we’ve interacted less frequently, the less focus (wishing for reciprocation) has existed.

                    Does that devalue it? Not at all in my eyes – because that reciprocation has existed. Proving that projection was worthwhile, worthwhile of self-value, and valued by other.

                    (Disclaimer: my view of our interaction as an example is just my view – not saying it’s your view. Just putting my unfiltered reflection about it out here. :))

                    • secretthots May 24, 2013 at 1:26 pm #

                      Well, when you put it that way, yes. AND it makes me think that ultimately, projection is a form of manipulation. And, how we get what we want determines the degree of awareness we have about our needs, wants, and propensity for manipulation.

                      Can you rephrase your example a little, please? I’m not sure that I’m following.

                      And btw, read this today and found it applicable:

                      “We are incredibly heedless in the formation of our beliefs, but find ourselves filled with an illicit passion for them when anyone proposes to rob us of their companionship.” – James Harvey Robinson

                    • NormalDeviations May 24, 2013 at 2:47 pm #

                      That’s along the lines I’ve been thinking, except I dislike using the term manipulation when it’s really tempered by interpretation and reciprocation. I’m starting to wonder if I’m pursuing pedantic separations when the existing terms are sufficient? In other words, what *could* be called manipulation could also be called reciprocation – it depends on the interpretation, intent, and portrayal. I think.

                      Rephrasing the example better (hopefully):

                      We interact more, not only to express thoughts, responses, and opinion but also the (express? implied?) intuitive projection, encouragement, (and/or?) endorsement of continued reciprocation.

                      The way you and I generally respond in our microcosm is (simplified example):

                      Lola: [complex, well-considered thought, idea, or postulate, or question]

                      Dave: [complex agreement, tangent or extrapolation]

                      Lola: [response complex, well-considered thought, idea, or postulate, or question]

                      Wash, rinse, repeat.

                      An example of how that is different is along the lines of:

                      Commenter: [thought, idea, or postulate, or question]

                      Dave: Thanks! Yup. I see what you mean – I agree.

                      (conversation ends)

                      They’re both simplified examples, but I think you see what I mean?

                      And with that projected/responsive tacit subtext, it develops more communication growth. Because of that aspect. Take the exchanges we’ve had over the last week – they haven’t spiraled down to completion, as a whole, but ramped up to an increase. Due to that responsiveness and tacit projection – which isn’t manipulative in my book, at least not with the negative connotation.

                      Does that make sense? Or am I confusing it further? πŸ™‚

  3. secretthots May 30, 2013 at 1:37 pm #

    “In other words, what *could* be called manipulation could also be called reciprocation – it depends on the interpretation, intent, and portrayal. I think.”

    Yes, I hear that… and I concur: I think it does depend on II and P.

    It’s also been my experience that one’s ability/ propensity for projection may compensate for an indiscernible/ uncommunicated (emotional) shift between two people. This shift occurs because some aspect of a relationship is no longer reciprocal. Sometimes, we’re not even aware that we’ve made the shift until our actions are pointed out to us/ someone gets hurt or angry and other times, we are very conscious in limiting/ refocusing our giving of time, energy, compassion, love, etc.

    I’m wondering if it’s in this shifting phase that projections become most abundant and sharp… in the ‘I don’t know.’ And yet, if I were to indulge my philosopher self, I could easily argue: can one ever really KNOW?

    (And, of course, I’m obtusely referencing my own experiences along with others I imagine or have heard which is its own kind of manipulation and projection, I suppose.)

    I’m slowly recovering from being a bit sick so, I may just be confused or am confusing things now… have I derailed us? πŸ˜‰

    ps: I appreciate your examples. They are apt. And delightful, too. πŸ™‚

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