even more than things…

interlude

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People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed, and redeemed; never throw out anyone.


– Audrey Hepburn

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11 Responses to “even more than things…”

  1. secretthots May 3, 2013 at 12:58 am #

    but then there’s Daniell Koepke who says, “It’s one thing if a person owns up to their behavior and makes an effort to change. But if a person disregards your feelings, ignores your boundaries, and continues to treat you in a harmful way, they need to go.”

    …. hmmm.

    • NormalDeviations May 16, 2013 at 12:24 pm #

      Yeah, true. But you know what that boils down to, no?

      Trust in yourself.

      Can you – we – recognize when the harm is outweighing the… other factors? (I won’t even say good, or positive, because many times it’s not even that. Sometimes, blind want or need that we use to pull wool over our eyes and it seems to be the opposite of harm.)

      • secretthots May 21, 2013 at 2:34 pm #

        Yes, trust in yourself is a practice… nothing to be taken for granted but I think we are also limited in our self understanding so, sometimes it take external factors for us to be exposed most honestly and nakedly to ourselves.

        I wonder if recognition partly depends on our ability to accept what we are experiencing/ witnessing, and what we believe is at stake – within us or that which lies before us.

        Another way: if the cost to say, apologize or admit we’re wrong feels too great for x, y, and z reasons, then, we might say we are trusting ourselves but in reality, what we are actually trusting is a pattern of denial or lying or fear… for example.

        And in those instances, we blind ourselves to what we may need (i mean, who really wants to be that enlightened?!) for the sake of what we want.

        (I mean, no one wants to be blamed, or ignored, or undesirable, or afraid/ angry/ hurt/ confused… etc.etc.etc.)

        • NormalDeviations May 22, 2013 at 5:47 pm #

          I wonder if recognition partly depends on our ability to accept what we are experiencing/ witnessing, and what we believe is at stake – within us or that which lies before us.

          Do you mean accepting what really exists rather than our flawed perception convincing ourselves that what lies before us can be made into what we want?

          And in those instances, we blind ourselves to what we may need (i mean, who really wants to be that enlightened?!) for the sake of what we want.

          This. Yes.

          I understand completely. And facing that is insanely difficult – even when we need it. How to get there without a lot of pain? Hell if I know. Is it even necessary? Most of me says ‘yes’ – even though it’s very painful. Part of me, a small part, wonders if that’s true or if it’s a form of punishing self.

          • secretthots May 23, 2013 at 3:25 pm #

            Yes, that is exactly what I mean; you said it much clearer than I could. Thank you.

            And yes, I concur and completely understand what you’re saying in your second point. My thot today about “how to get there without a lot of pain?” is more about projection. The pat solution seems to be to ‘just let it go’ but I get so irritated when people say that because I have absolutely no idea what that actually means or what the process looks like (because obviously, it’s unique to each person and situation). I also feel some anxiety at that thot; what if I’m not ready to let it go? What if I haven’t had my say? What if I haven’t tried everything? etc… ego driven stuff, I guess.

            But maybe it’s less complex than I’m making it and in my/ our case, it actually means identifying X projection and once we are conscious of ‘it,’ we can then CHOOSE to engage (with) it or not. (I think this connects to some basic cognitive behavioural therapy principals but I digress) So, maybe it’s not so much about letting ‘it’ go as much as being conscious about how we might be letting ‘it’ govern our choices/ actions.

            Maybe? It’s a brand new thot and re-reading, it seems overly simplistic so, I hope you can pardon me that for the sake of indulging my discovery. πŸ™‚

            As to ‘punishing self,’ I don’t know if it’s true for me – I’d like to mull that possibility some more – but something rings honest about it and that resonates for me in a meaningful place within myself. My first response is to think historically: if our primary loving/ familial relationships were in any way associated with pain/ trauma, then the need for painful stimuli can be pavlovian in our adult selves. And so, in some way, pain becomes one of a few/ many measuring sticks for whether we are loved/ necessary/ safe.

            And yes, I appreciate the irony of what I just wrote. πŸ™‚

            • NormalDeviations May 23, 2013 at 3:58 pm #

              The pat solution seems to be to β€˜just let it go’ but I get so irritated when people say that because I have absolutely no idea what that actually means or what the process looks like (because obviously, it’s unique to each person and situation).

              Join the crowd! There’s nothing else I can add to this except, ‘me too.’ =)

              My first response is to think historically: if our primary loving/ familial relationships were in any way associated with pain/ trauma, then the need for painful stimuli can be pavlovian in our adult selves.

              Guess what I’ve been exploring within myself recently? Exactly. And the phase I’m in is how to determine what really was that pain/trauma – or how something was interpreted as pain/trauma – if that is it. It’s hard to gauge if there is a single triggering event that can be the “ah ha! that was it” thing to be identified. Yet it’s something sought. Why that need to identify one thing, or specific things rather than acceptance that there *was* something? Is it relevant to determine what it was, or just the impact?

              Indulge away and mull; I like what you share when you do. πŸ™‚

              Ps. The multiple parallel, interwoven thought/discusion threads are starting to blur together into one. Is that just me? =)

              • secretthots May 23, 2013 at 4:09 pm #

                I think it’s vital to determine what it was in order to measure and understand the impact.

                I’m in the same boat – have been for awhile and had a ginormous epiphany about a source event (which is actually couched in a series of life circumstances) when I was about 5-years old. It’s been monumental and yet, frustrating as hell, too; I’m amazed what I suddenly have context for and can release myself from (as in, certain things/ events no longer hurt, scare or anger me) while at the same time, I’m realizing I have no idea what to replace old (thinking/ acting) patterns with.

                The most grace-giving learning has been that some of the primary ways I am most challenging (to myself and others) has actually been learned; so, if I learned them, then theoretically, I can unlearn them and replace my learned thinking/ behaviour with something new.

                I love that we’re traveling along this path in our own ways; it’s already been a balm to me in more ways than one. ‘Cause yes, I agree… the themes of our lives and our discussion threads do seem to be weaving.

                Hey! Maybe that means we’re getting us closer to a new source of fresh water/ air… and new path(s)?

                πŸ™‚

  2. Beatnik du Jour May 3, 2013 at 11:13 am #

    hmm indeed. i had to read the first part of this post several times… lack of focus πŸ™‚

  3. NormalDeviations May 16, 2013 at 12:26 pm #

    This image.. is this a metaphoric mirror, or intimacy?

    That’s what I ask myself, looking at it.

    • secretthots May 16, 2013 at 6:05 pm #

      I like the questions you ask… I really do.

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